How to be friends with someone of a different religion

Not everyone out there agrees with you on how I am coming across.

 

:hmm: I'm not saying everyone.
But certainly something must have triggered Batman into writing that post and addressing it to you.
Something must of triggered KKPDX's response yikes;
and something must have triggered my reply.
Seek, this is not an attack on you (or. at least, that's not my intention).

 

:yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes::yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

What an awesome smiley.

Kimberly

 

Nope :hopeless:

I sent you a PM.

 

Hmmm. Not entirely sure I agree with this or the presupposition. Jesus spoke in public places and at the temples. Was He invited or not? I don't think the pharisees or the saducees invited Him to speak in the temples, but He did teach scripture and He pulled no punches in deriding them and sharing His truth.

So, let's take the analogy of this being a somewhat 'public' place. Dan and Gavin run the site. If they don't like what is being posted they can override anyone - fair dues as they own the site. But for everyone else, we play by the rules and standards they set. So, let's say it is a 'public' place and the owners of the site give us pretty much a free speech platform to discuss things.

So what is happening here of late? A few people (not a large number of people) have been expressing a) both their faith and b) how that relates and impacts their world view. They have contrasted it with others and in points of discussion this has caused other people to get upset with them. Now instead of those people moving on and ignoring the posts or the posters, those people have chosen to deride, mock, scorn or whatever (see John's examples for some examples). No one has badgered those people, they could have just ignored Seek or whoever they want. In fact it is so easy, they only have to click a button. So it's not hard is it. But it is more 'fun' for those people to act all tolerant and yet cause a fuss and try to shut down the type of speech that offends them claiming that these Christians or whatever label has been thrown around are trying to change the nature or direction of the site.

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

And quite frankly I am more with John in terms of recent events being the straw that has broken the camels back. In the few years I have been here I've seen a few pretty insulting statements related to my faith thrown around in what some view as South Park style humor. I haven't thrown a hissy fit or tantrum and I am still here, but if I had it would have been dismissed as just being 'humor'. But woe if someone tries to share their faith and someone finds it offensive. The double standard is what is really funny.

Paul

 

:surrender: I give up trying.

Is that your new mantra: "If you can't beat them, run off and hide"?
Thank GOD Jesus wasn't a quitter.

 

I'll probably go to "hell" for this but he was the one selling HIM. When the car salesman says "Honey, this is the only car you need to look at..." don't you run, not walk, to do some comparison shopping?

People can take or leave his message because they know there are other ways to salvation or hell would have overflowed by now.

Christ had to believe he was the only way to salvation because he was prepared to give his life for his belief. That doesn't make it true. All of what he said happened before he rose. How could he know that was the truth? How do we know what the bible tells us he said was what he really said? What he really meant? How do we know that the scripture we are handed, and we treat as if it dropped out of the sky fully formed by God, is what was really said back then? Not changed? Modified? Misinterpreted?

If something else makes sense to someone else in a spiritual way, how can you even suggest that they will go to hell for not believing in your version of how things are?

THAT is why Christians get lambasted. It's not even funny how cocky an attitude that is.

I believe what that scripture means is that the only way to salvation is to be like him. Not through him. To live as he lived. To strive to be Christ-like.

Fine. DO that. But do it with the respect that people are their own person and nothing you do or say can change that. You are not here to save us. You are here to be the best person you can be. I am here to be the best person I can be. And don't even think about pre-damning my soul simply because I don't jump on your bandwagon. My soul is not your business.

Right. I just call it arrogant.


Jennifer

 

Now that is a surprise

 

You can call it hiding if you wish, I would define it as raising the standards by which I live my life.

As I said, I haven't decided yet either way. I came back after a break. All I have seen is endless arguments here since I've come back with little else of value related to success or anything else. I'm still waiting to see the direction this forum wishes to take itself in. I can co-exist with people who do not share my faith and have done so for many years here, on other forums and in the real world. But even so, the anti-Christian mood on this site has seemingly kicked up to a whole other level of late and I am re-evaluating my position in the light of this. It's not about having to be with people who share my faith and beliefs, but it is about having respect to debate things sensibly and not mock others for what they believe and call them for example, 'delusional' or 'liars'

 

I thought I said that. But since this is a public forum and I am speaking to more people than just you, why not let me and others engage in discussion with those who do want to discuss it and if you don't like the message keep quiet and ignore it? Is that so hard? Is it so hard to ignore what you don't want to hear? Or do you/others feel instead compelled to attack and belittle?

 

Just answer one question: Do we or do we not have the right to express our ideas even if they contradict yours?


Jennifer

 

Yes. Has John, Seeks or I ever said different?

Question: Is calling someone's beliefs delusional or based on outright lies an expression of an idea/an opinion or do you think it goes beyond that? Can there not be debate without derisement?

 

Then stop strongly suggesting we ignore you and let you pontificate endlessly as if this was a private party the rest of us were crashing.

Quit judging MY opinions as derisive based on your viewpoint. My opinions are NOT derisive. YOU are taking them that way. It's insulting to me and I consider it a personal attack.

Jennifer

 

I'm not going to bother replying anymore tonight.

In fact I've deleted the rest of my message here. I won't be replying tomorrow either. I think you thrive on negative energy and argument Jennifer.

Ciao

 

I thrive on helping people to see how important it is in not presuming to fill my world with their ideals at the expense of my own. Among other things.

Sometimes it's the ones who seem the most innocent who have the power to do the most damage.

Jennifer

 

Hey! This thread is supposed to be about being friends. :cookoo:

 

I think the above is a distortion of the facts. To say that "No-one has badgered those people" is to ignore the fact this whole wave of dissent was begun by Seek's constant and persistent badgering of people with his new-found religion.

Secondly, your posts, Paul, seem to suggest that the less-religious amongst us are interrupting the discussions between the more religous amongst us. There has been very little, if any, conversation between Seek and John, between you and Batman Tim, in these forum. All of the posts of the more religious have been directed at the less religious. Starting with Seek.

There have been comments and conversation between less religious folk, and it is the imposition of more religious comments into these less religious conversations that is the issue here.

In fact, to put it more clearly, the "attacks" (for want of a better word) have been by the more religious against the less religious. Not the other way round, as you, John and Seek have been portraying.

So, to use your own words - why don't you and other more religious folk let me and other less religious folk engage in discussion with those who do want to discuss it and if you don't like the message keep quiet and ignore it? Is that so hard? Is it so hard to ignore what you don't want to hear? Or do you/others feel instead compelled to attack and belittle us?

 

Who does that? ….. I do.

That is what “True Friends” do…. Talk “Personally” about “Personal Stuff”.

I have many friends that believe differently than I do.

However, I find no reason to NEVER talk about our individual faiths/spirituality or any other topics.

“True Friends” and “Mature People” of all faiths/spirituality should be able to discuss their individual faiths/spirituality (or other topics) without the fear of jeopardizing friendships or limiting their topics of conversations.

They key is “Mutual Respect”, “Courtesy”, finding “Common Grounds” and seeing the “Goodness” in others.

And all of the above should be a “Given” if you are “True Friends”.

 

I have to agree with Jen on this one. Somethings are better left unsaid. Religion is not discussed in my house.

 

I agree.

I have
- muslim friends
- jewish friends
- catholic friends
- all forms of protestant friends
- I know a few guys that are hindu and we aren't "great" friends

and I have talked about religion with all of them. And it has never been anything other than pleasant

Maybe its the medium. Maybe its easier to condemn or belittle what another person believes when you don't have to look them in the eye or talk to them face to face