Questions I have about the Bible

You are right, they did not see him as THEIR saviour! So they (the disciples) went on and started a new religion called Christianty.

He was crucified due to both religious and political reasons.

 

Which begs the original question, why keep the Old Testament?

Given that the old T was written by Jews, but Christians adopted it, its not unreasonable for it to be the "word of god", and thus equal to Jesus words?

If the original book says "an eye for an eye", then why dont Christians (who refer to it as their bible) stick to it?

 

I dont know the historical reasons but as I understand it, you have the beginning and then the new progress. You cannot just cut of the beginning. Does that make sense to you?

About the "An eye for an eye" and why some Christians use, its a good question. I have only seen this going on in the USA. I dont know why they seem to forget the teachings of Jesus and to forgive thei sinner etc. Maybe its one of the many christian churces in the states which mix things up, I have never heard the catholic church talk about this.

 

I'm interested in the notion being presented here that only jews occupied the Holy Land at this time. There were many people in the land at the time of Christ who were not jews, and very likely jews were in a minority. We know from the Bible (I think) that at least one of the disciples was Roman - Paul, wasn't it? I don't know when the appelation 'arab' was first used and what the criteria was for someone to be called arab, but most of the common people would have been either arab or the precursers of what is today called arab. Including the jews. Arabs and jews are of the same semetic race.

There were also many romans, not just the occupying military men, but traders and workers and roman families. So, it seems to me, unless there is evidence to the contrary, that Jesus was very likely not a jew. Is it likely, after all, that jews would crucify one of their own?

Are there not references in the Bible to 'other people' who did not believe in the jewish god, or who believed in several gods? Aren't there a number of stories about wars between the jews and these other people? If that is the case, then that is proof that there were non-jews living there at that time.

Do we know for a fact that Joseph, Jesus' father was a jew, and Mary? Is there any actual evidence or any reference in the Bible to whether any of the disciples where jews?

I am of the opinion (but ready to be corrected) that most of Jesus' followers were non-believers until he came along. That Jesus did not preach to jews but taught a different somewhat-jewish lesson to non-jews.

 

there actually is a great explanation of that in the audio

 

You work for a company selling speakers for computers dont you:biglaugh:

 

I dont know where you got your notion from.

Jesus did go to the temple and when he became 12 he started to argue with the priests.

Mary did listen to God and I reckon Jesus did not go by himself to the temple when he was a child.

Yes there were other people about besides Jews. I have read about some of them who wrote the scrolls found at the dead sea.

There are a few good books about all the history both of the area and the people in the bible, I have never gotten around to buying them but they are very interesting and give you lots of background information.

 

I dont know where you got your notion from. - from this forum.

Jesus did go to the temple and when he became 12 he started to argue with the priests. - Does that prove he was a jew? Would a 12-year-old, no matter how intelligent and precocious, who was indoctrinated in a way of thinking, argue with priests? Or is it more likely a precocious boy not indoctrinated would argue with priests? Neither seem to me proof, one way or the other. Is there any report or reference to the fact of Jesus being a jew?

Mary did listen to God and I reckon Jesus did not go by himself to the temple when he was a child. - I get that Mary heard God, but has God never spoken to a non-jew? And, it is my understanding of the story of the boy, Jesus, arguing with priests, is that he was lost and found at the Temple - not that he was taken to the temple.

Yes there were other people about besides Jews... - Good. Thanks, Flower. So, the case still open.

Anyone else have confirmation or knowledge to answer these questions?

 

Chuck there are a lot of things the Old Testament Provides for us as Christians
It lays out the 300+ prophesies that Jesus later fulfilled
It shows Gods nature , loving yet just
It provides historical reference
It provides a baseline

And if God choses to do a rewrite - I suppose he will

 

yer catching on big boy

 

Ok Tim, I accept that, so why do some Christians (including some on this site) suggest - when I ask them - that somehow its not as relevant?

I understand that perhaps I should ask them - which I did - but that led to Argumentsville......

If you know the answer, I would be grateful?

 

there some starter answers here

no speakers required

 

Spider,
I dont have the books that I mentioned so I cannot give you exact dates or chapters etc.
But Im fairly sure that the Jewish Temple would not allow any outsiders inside! And when Jesus was in jail before crucifixion, then there were arguements about which one to save, Im sorry but I cannot remember the words but it was clear that Jesus was a Jew.
I find it strange that you use the word " indoctrinated " where we have used the word knowledge and talked about what knowledge Jesus had of the old Testament. To me the "indoctrinated" has a negative sound.

Maybe some other members who have access to similar books I mention could give you the correct answer or you could go find a priest.

To me the case is not still open. I feel I know my answer, I just cannot give you the technical correct answers to satisfy your question.

And as far as I see, no one has denied that there living other people besides Jew at the time of Jesus. At that time the Arabs were not Muslims as the religion was not even about at that time, but I think they lived in Tribes.

 

Would you care to share some of your reading?

I have only read a little of the Philip testament but Im afraid I dont remember much.
I have seen the film "Stigmata" with Gabriel Byrne which is based on the Thomas testamente.

 

I agree with you Flower, but I doubt you will ever answer this to Spider's satisfaction. I admire your patience.

Paul

 

John 1:45
Philip found Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

- Philip knew the Jewish law and also about the coming of the Messiah

Luke 2:22
When the time of their purification according to the Law of Moses had been completed, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord

- why would they follow the law of Moses if they were not Jews?


By the way - Paul was also Jewish!

 

Thanks, Paul!

 

Luke 2:27 (New International Version)

27Moved by the Spirit, he went into the temple courts. When the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the custom of the Law required,


Luke: 2
The Boy Jesus at the Temple
41Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. 42When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. 43After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you."

49"Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" 50But they did not understand what he was saying to them

 

Paul, it wasn't really necessary to imply that I would not be satisfied with any answer. A simple statement from the Bible would have answered the question. And I thank you for providing some biblical verses towards this.

If digging deeper is not found to be offensive, I would like to ask if it would have been necessary in John 1:45, following anything else in the bible, for the messiah to have been a jew. What I read from the passage you quoted, Philip knew the Law but that doesn't make Philip necessarily a jew - I'm sure there were some non-jews who knew the jewish law. It does indicate that Moses was a jew because he wrote the jewish law, it says. But I see nothing in this passage that tells me anything about Jesus other than that he came from Nazareth and his father's name was Joseph. Is it stated somewhere, perhaps, that all the inhabitants of Nazareth were jews? Perhaps "Nazareth, where the jews live..." or something?

Actually, Nazareth was not even in Judea - it was in the Land of Canaan, well to the north of Judea, part of which is today's Lebanon. In fact, it was even north of Samaria. I see no indication that Canaan was home to jews. In fact, weren't the Canaanites and the Jews enemies and didn't they have regular battles?

Luke 2:22 - Now we are getting closer. Can you explain what is meant by 'the time of their purification?' I take this to be some ritual according to the law of Moses, which as we have seen from your first quote, was referred to as the jewish law. Great! Confirmation that Joseph and Mary were jews (as long as 'purification' was a jewish ritual.) The 'him' being taken to Jerusalem, I presume, was Jesus, was it? From that I am comfortable in accepting that Jesus, the son of jews, would have been jewish.

Thanks, Paul. And thank you, Flower.


Re: the disciple Paul - Could he have been both Roman and a jew? Or am I in error about him being Roman? Any specific confirmation about any of the other disciples?

 

I can answer this one quick - the Bible tells us that Paul was a Roman citizen but I don't believe he was actually Roman. He was training to be a sadduccee or pharisee if I remember correctly. He persecuted early Christians and was present when Stephen was stoned to death as recorded in Acts.

I will try and get back to your other point later!

Cheers