'Religion' vs. 'Spirituality'.

Umm... shall I point out to you Jennifer that you just used Exclusive language... 'why you belived such nonsense'.:hmm:

 

I'm glad someone noticed my funny.

I'm really really trying not to start a war. But some people say the darndest things! :hmm:


Jennifer

 

Great avoidance strategy.

Nevermind enlightened one

 

Nice thread, Corinne!

I dont like the name though "Religion versus Spirituality" as I believe that the true sense of spirituality comes from a religion. It can be Christanity, judiasm, old muslim texts, buddhism etc.
In all religions you can stick with being religous and practise their rules but once you get spiritual then you start taking the path towards God. You start taking in very deeply all the words and what is actually means, the meaning behind the words, you grow as a person, you face all your demons and faults, you purify yourself etc. Different religions has different paths and even some religons has several paths where you can focus on a certain way to reach God.

Then there is the popular sense of the word spiritual. Where many so called self-claimed guru of all sorts have developed a much more easy way where you dont have to face your demons, work with your self on deep levels etc. These kind of people take and steal different methods and tools from the old religions and only do a very little of the long road to God. And quite often the goal is not to seek God but to feel better here and now. You often hear of healers, different meditations, chants, prayers and many people buy symbols from the old religions and enjoy them without having the real understanding of the symbols and what they mean. To many people this kind of spiritually is comforting and is often used in a romantic way.

Where am I then? well Im leading towards a certain path within the catholic church where meditation is a focus and then I do yoga as a way of cleaning my body, still read Søren Kierkegaard who was a danish philosopher who is famous as the father of existentialism but he was a very deeply religious and spiritual man within Christianity, and then I find truth within Gustav Jung, who has a theory about man with truths from both the science world and several religions. I care much for people who take a path and follow through even in the hard times as I see them coming out on the other end as extremely humble and with such large amount of love in their hearts. I have met several people like that even an true Chief Indian from the states who was very sweet and with a loving heart. I have met a Tibetian munk, several catholic munks, a buddhist lama, a shaman and several people who have devoted their lives to God in different ways.

To me each religion has several layers. And most people dont see beside the first or the second. But if you ask and if you open your heart to people, then they will gladly share and show you much more than you ever could dream of. There is of course a reason for each religion not showing you all the layers at first. Quite often you need to be ready to comprehend the depth in the things revealed to you.

 

Not to mention to net the "self-claimed guru" boat-loads of cash

It amazes me that people will skewer the televangelist (rightfully so) and allow the "self-claimed guru" that have the same intent

 

Some people just "get" me, Bats. :thumb:

Others, not so much.

It matters...not so much.

Jennifer

 

Jenn I get you - that is why I am confused, sincerely

 

:biglaugh:

I call it a miracle!

 

:biglaugh:

You guys are cracking me up this morning!!!

 

Every living being has a spirit/soul. Jesus had/has one too.

 

Bats, in your current state of enlightenment, I'm not entirely sure that your being confused about my statements is bad thing. You have a sureity that I will never have because that would mean having to think like a person that knows it ALL. Who 'know's it all' about things that are, at their very essense, truly unknowable?

As far as Jesus, we obviously have different impressions of the man. I take the essense of what has been written about him and I paint a picture of a great, loving, healing, giving, wholesome, human man who gave his life trying to teach humanity that they were capable of being Gods. Didn't just preach it, but lived it. He was human and had failings, anger, etc. But that was part of the perfect lesson. He could be human AND a God at the same time. He was the epitome of inclusive. Otherwise he would have run from the lepers. He would have shunned gentiles. He rejected no one who wished to learn from him.

Christianity became exclusive in practice, not in theology. Bible quotes don't really cut it either. They were written by people about Jesus and many of them had their own agendas.

So who really knows? All I know is that my Jesus was inclusive.

Jennifer

 

I've never seem him as feeling as if he were all knowing. Instead I see someone who is demonstrating the very faith that Christians are asked to have.

Oh boy, wow, just, wow! I'm starting to see how twisted your thinking is when it comes to what Jesus was all about and it is shedding light on where you're getting your understanding of the Bible, which is right out of thin air and not out of understanding the text. Jesus was not here to teach us that we can all be gods. That is what Anton LaVey tried to teach in the satanic bible. I generally have liked you as a person, but I am horrified by what you're buying into.

When did justified anger become a short coming? Jesus was not imperfect, He was perfect even on earth. The Bible does not say anyone who is angry for any reason is wrong, it says anyone who is angry without just cause is wrong.

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. - Matthew 5:22

Jesus could not get sick because He did nothing to bring on sickness, there was no sin in Him at all. Therefore He would have no need to run from lepers, plus He was God in human form, so again, no need to worry about getting sick from the lepers. He reached out to all people because He was trying to bring people to the right path. That is the same thing that many Christians are doing, and all should be doing, including the unsaved in their lives so they can hear the message and be saved.

Christianity is not about excluding people, but there have been those who fall short of being Christ like and they have been people who want to exclude others. But you shouldn't generalize and think that all Christians are behaving in that manner.

As for the Bible, it is the inspired word of God. I don't agree that it has been twisted and corrupted by people. But I'm not going to argue endless on this one topic, because it is impossible to to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

I am not sure if you meant it this way but I take that as a great compliment -

Its called Faith :thumb:

You should try it on for size one day

and to borrow a quote:

Again thank you very much!!! :thumb:

 

:wss:

 

Thanks, Jukes. I know I am not pulling these ideas out of thin air, not making it up as I go along. I learn from others and collate those ideas into what makes the most sense for me. I'm breathing different air that Seeks and Bats breathe and who really cares? (Apparently Seeks does since he has me with one foot in Satan's bed. )

You know, on this Earth there are nearly five billion people that actually don't believe the same as you Seeks. Do you find it odd that you are so absolute and so certain that your way is THE way? Who knows this to be true? Even faith doesn't give you the right to say the rest of us are wrong. Even among Christians, there are gobs that aren't buying what you are. Are they all damned? Am I truly damned? Why does this way suddenly make sense to you? Just curious.

I never said anything about the scripture. I happen to believe it has been irrepairably tainted and can no longer be the perfection that you believe it is. That's not to say it is valueless, it is certainly one of the most valuable tomes from history. But it's no longer, if it ever was, the word of God. It's the word of man and perhaps the contributors were inspired by God but I happen to believe every living breathing human on the Earth is inspired by God regardless of their religion.

Then why would the Catholics not let me take communion even though I attended faithfully? Why would a Catholic priest not honor the wishes of my faithful Catholic mother-in-law and attend my wedding to her son and bless us even though it was being held in a Christian but not Catholic church? Because they exclude. You break their rules, you will be excluded. That is called exclusion by practice, though they preach Christ's inclusivity. Another example of Catholic/ Christian hypocrisy.

Your current behavior on these topics is that of a zealot. Someone that cannot see that any way but their way has merit. It is another example of a Christian being exclusive, not inclusive.

But you seem certain in your beliefs so I have to have faith that you will be ok. I'll pray for it, in fact.

Jennifer

 

Because it's you, I'll try not to be insulted by this.

Is my faith not as worthy because it doesn't match yours?

Faith is still believing in the unknowable and I know the definition of faith. My very point is that you have no earthy clue whether what I believe is more or less "true" than what you believe or what Seeks believes.

That was my point.

Jennifer

 

Point taken and I was genuinely complimented.

I am sorry if I insulted you, I would say it wasn't meant that way but I was feeling a little insulted myself... I lashed out- I am sorry!

 

Great post, Flower. I was especially touched by the last paragraph.

 

Love this thread Corinne

and i would like to agree with alot of the stuff Jenni has said..well worded!

 

Welcome to the forum Ben.

You are one of the top 2009 registrants and we hope you stay.

Jennihul is one of our top most intelligent members, and we hope you think so too.

We all hope you stay.

Again...Welcome!